Am reading this long post on AVclub about the perils of reading an epic series, especially with regards to the ending being a disappointment. Wow, there's a fair amount of frustration towards George Martin and Stephen King going on there, but there are a number of reasonable points on a reader's frustration about endings.
Something I might have been thinking a bit about recently. The more I'm reminded of things like Wheel of Time, the more I'm glad I stuck to five books and aren't planning follow ups (short stories that I've already written aside). I've been looking forward to having a finished product for such a long time, why would I ruin that by saying there's more of the story yet to come? The shorts are supplementary information, side pieces to the main story that aren't crucial but might be interesting to fans. But even if you do want the full set, you'll be waiting maybe six months after the publication of Dusk Watchman I believe, no more.
The opinions you have to contend with are along the lines of
"it was as if I’d wasted years—or worse, as if King had stolen from me by making offers he couldn’t possibly see through. It’s hard not to get upset about that, much like it was hard for me not to feel cheated when J.K. Rowling brought her seven-book epic to conclusion with the muddled, often inert Harry Potter And The Deathly Hallows. Much like it was hard for many fans not to get outraged when the final season of Lost didn’t answer their questions."
These days, would it be excessive to think that a lot of fans are going into an ending of a series wondering how disappointed they're going to be?
"We need a conclusion that… delivers on whatever promises have been made…. This is nearly impossible."
Apparently, saying 'I know how it ends' doesn't cut the mustard with some readers.
But what really jumped out at me was this:
"writers keep trying, and audiences keep buying, despite the almost inevitable disappointment these series bring"
Almost inevitable?! Jesus. Basically, the sense is that the start is always going to be the best, and a series will go downhill from there. Is that the core readership's view? The people who've been disappointed the most, but are the ones a new or mid-list author needs to impress?
I immediately wanted to reply "wait, some of us were still developing our style – the writing gets better as my series goes on!" but i'm not sure that's the most sensible comment to any blog post… it does remind me that the way to a successful series is to get a great opener. The rest aren't so vital – if people like book one and buy it in their hordes, you're going to be earning for years to come. So which way would I – as a debut writer with bills to pay – want to do it, given the choice?
Now I'm not saying anything definitive on that front because the point is moot, but I find myself thinking I should be approaching bloggers to get them to read the whole series in one go near enough. I think it's a series that improves and develops into more than the sum of its parts but the end. How I sell that to the readers is the question?
Yeah, is a bit frustrating that the nature of the beast means you’re basically never going to sell more copies of the later works than of book 1 – to build sales of Twilight Reign now I either need a marketing commitment from my publisher, or to attract a new set of fans with something new and let them discover the backlist on their own.
With the only modestly successful series, or unsuccessful ones, that must constitute the majority of ones written, I wonder how the quality arc looks for them. How many of those had the best book as their first – I suspect not many.
For Scott Lynch, who’s going to sell loads of Republic of Thieves whenever it does get published, EVERY following book of the remaining six(?) in the series will be compared to the style and freshness of Lies of Locke Lamora – probably even ones after that too. Which in some ways is great because it captured the imagination and was a brilliant book as well as earned him loads of money, but at the same time to compare something you’ve been waiting for for ages against a somewhat romanticised memory of what the first one was like… that’s a tough ask for any writer.
Competing with the rose-tinted memories of things is balls hard. I’ve had arguments with friends about this; I still stand by the theory that while the 4th Indiana Jones movie is the weakest, it’s still quite good, it’s just that my friends are seeing it as jaundiced 20-somethings instead of as wide-eyed youngsters.
Hmm, have to disagree there – I still think it’s a pile of ass. Will admit that as a child I might have thought some of the scene before the ridiculous ending were cooler than I did on a flight back from my honeymoon… But there were elements of the previous films that, when I saw them the first time, I thought were profoundly silly and poor.
Might also have to admit that as a child (and thus not a professional writer) I might not have been quite so offended by the writing in the Star Wars prequels!
Oh it’s certainly the weakest, but being the weakest Indy movie is still above average.
I think the prequels actually are objectively worse than the original trilogy on the Star Wars front.
I like to think I’d have still been a little bit offended by some of them, no matter how young I was!
Hmmm…. I think you have enough characters developed at this point, that you can theoretically carry this epic on forever. I don’t think that’s what you had in mind when you started. Myself, I like to read an end to the story.
Harry Potter lost my interest when it looked like it was a never-ending story.
Unclejam is correct about the prequels. Why not tell the story you wanted to begin with?
My point is that you are a story teller. There are more than likely, many more stories in that brain of yours. I’m sure there other roles you would like to cover and not be “Landlocked”…..I think the worst thing a writer can be is “typecast”. Anyway, that’s my thought on the subject…
Yeah, is a bit frustrating that the nature of the beast means you’re basically never going to sell more copies of the later works than of book 1 – to build sales of Twilight Reign now I either need a marketing commitment from my publisher, or to attract a new set of fans with something new and let them discover the backlist on their own.
With the only modestly successful series, or unsuccessful ones, that must constitute the majority of ones written, I wonder how the quality arc looks for them. How many of those had the best book as their first – I suspect not many.
For Scott Lynch, who’s going to sell loads of Republic of Thieves whenever it does get published, EVERY following book of the remaining six(?) in the series will be compared to the style and freshness of Lies of Locke Lamora – probably even ones after that too. Which in some ways is great because it captured the imagination and was a brilliant book as well as earned him loads of money, but at the same time to compare something you’ve been waiting for for ages against a somewhat romanticised memory of what the first one was like… that’s a tough ask for any writer.
Competing with the rose-tinted memories of things is balls hard. I’ve had arguments with friends about this; I still stand by the theory that while the 4th Indiana Jones movie is the weakest, it’s still quite good, it’s just that my friends are seeing it as jaundiced 20-somethings instead of as wide-eyed youngsters.
Hmm, have to disagree there – I still think it’s a pile of ass. Will admit that as a child I might have thought some of the scene before the ridiculous ending were cooler than I did on a flight back from my honeymoon… But there were elements of the previous films that, when I saw them the first time, I thought were profoundly silly and poor.
Might also have to admit that as a child (and thus not a professional writer) I might not have been quite so offended by the writing in the Star Wars prequels!
Oh it’s certainly the weakest, but being the weakest Indy movie is still above average.
I think the prequels actually are objectively worse than the original trilogy on the Star Wars front.
I like to think I’d have still been a little bit offended by some of them, no matter how young I was!
Hmmm…. I think you have enough characters developed at this point, that you can theoretically carry this epic on forever. I don’t think that’s what you had in mind when you started. Myself, I like to read an end to the story.
Harry Potter lost my interest when it looked like it was a never-ending story.
Unclejam is correct about the prequels. Why not tell the story you wanted to begin with?
My point is that you are a story teller. There are more than likely, many more stories in that brain of yours. I’m sure there other roles you would like to cover and not be “Landlocked”…..I think the worst thing a writer can be is “typecast”. Anyway, that’s my thought on the subject…
Any thoughts or decisions on the cover art?
Any thoughts or decisions on the cover art?
I personally think that the longer a series goes, the more danger there is in losing the audience. Take WoT. It’s been going on since the early 90s. Guess what, my tastes have changes since then. I grew out of that series and its idiocies a decade ago. I think most readers who actually try to read more than 1 book a year will end up falling into that same kind of mentality. I think this is perhaps why Erikson, despite his flaws, still comes across as brilliant. Do you think people would still be so forgiving if there had been 3 years between novels? Hell no.
The thing is, as a reviewer and a reader, the best thing you can do is keep your projects focused, and release a book a year if possible. Keep yourself constantly in the reader’s mind. It’s why trilogies are so common, psychologically. When I managed a store, this was a common response to my questions to customers about long series. “I can have an attention span of 3 years for a series of 3 books. I don’t want to commit to something that will be done in 10 freaking years at the earliest. What’s the point? At that point it’s a job.”
And don’t ask reviewers to read your whole series in one go. It won’t happen. I get more books a week than I can possibly read, so it’s hard to focus on just one huge series when you have a stack of thirteen other books to be read…by tomorrow.
If you really want to make sure some reviewers start on your series and get the word out, I recommend getting a clean electronic copy of book 1 (in pdf and epub) and offering to them for free.
I personally think that the longer a series goes, the more danger there is in losing the audience. Take WoT. It’s been going on since the early 90s. Guess what, my tastes have changes since then. I grew out of that series and its idiocies a decade ago. I think most readers who actually try to read more than 1 book a year will end up falling into that same kind of mentality. I think this is perhaps why Erikson, despite his flaws, still comes across as brilliant. Do you think people would still be so forgiving if there had been 3 years between novels? Hell no.
The thing is, as a reviewer and a reader, the best thing you can do is keep your projects focused, and release a book a year if possible. Keep yourself constantly in the reader’s mind. It’s why trilogies are so common, psychologically. When I managed a store, this was a common response to my questions to customers about long series. “I can have an attention span of 3 years for a series of 3 books. I don’t want to commit to something that will be done in 10 freaking years at the earliest. What’s the point? At that point it’s a job.”
And don’t ask reviewers to read your whole series in one go. It won’t happen. I get more books a week than I can possibly read, so it’s hard to focus on just one huge series when you have a stack of thirteen other books to be read…by tomorrow.
If you really want to make sure some reviewers start on your series and get the word out, I recommend getting a clean electronic copy of book 1 (in pdf and epub) and offering to them for free.
So, what are the odds in getting a pre-release??? I missed out on the last three. Would love to have one to keep with the set,,,,,
pre-release of book 5? Well, certainly possible, sure we’ll be doing give-aways closer to the time, maybe even full sets of the series too. Might have to make the launch party an open thing and have copies for give away there too.
Well…me being a permanent resident of the colonies may make it tough to attend anything in the UK. But, maybe we can come up with an arrangement of sorts.
How long of a break are you planning after this series is done? I love your writing style, and look forward to your next project.
Not a long break at all, can’t really afford to have one! Hopefully will be announcing the new contract very soon and planning on starting writing properly next week – editing of DW depending.
So, what are the odds in getting a pre-release??? I missed out on the last three. Would love to have one to keep with the set,,,,,
pre-release of book 5? Well, certainly possible, sure we’ll be doing give-aways closer to the time, maybe even full sets of the series too. Might have to make the launch party an open thing and have copies for give away there too.
Well…me being a permanent resident of the colonies may make it tough to attend anything in the UK. But, maybe we can come up with an arrangement of sorts.
How long of a break are you planning after this series is done? I love your writing style, and look forward to your next project.
Not a long break at all, can’t really afford to have one! Hopefully will be announcing the new contract very soon and planning on starting writing properly next week – editing of DW depending.